"It was not just that the idea of international commitment, or the higher logic of macroeconomics had not yet been socialized. The very idea of the US federal government as a substantial intrusion into ordinary life was as yet unfamiliar."
I'd say there's a significant portion of American voters who still - a hundred years later - have not accommodated themselves to the idea of "the US federal government as a substantial intrusion into ordinary life." We call these people Republicans.
Our government does millions of things, and accounts for about a third of our GDP, and yet there are still people walking around in a fantasy, believing that - with just the right guy in power - they could take us back to the days before 1917 (Trump has even talked about eliminating the income tax in favor of higher tariffs, a pre-1917 economic policy if there ever was one.)
Then these fantasy-addled people vote Republican, and sometimes even elect Republicans, and the government never gets smaller, only bigger. Naturally, they read this as a betrayal by "the deep state" rather than draw the obvious conclusion that their fantasy is, in fact, a fantasy.
What, pray tell, does the Federal Government do well that a private company could not do better? When you spend other people’s money, you’re not nearly as focused on bang for the buck, I think this is indisputable, you’re welcome to try. Government employees have very little incentive to do their jobs well, for example the DMV in every state, not models of efficiency. A fantasy perhaps, but one worth building a block at a time.
BTW, I just renewed my license plates online through Wisconsin's DMV, the whole thing took about ten minutes, I got the renewal sticker in the mail in less than a week. You're DMV-bashing is old and tired, like a comedy act that's grown stale.
Health care. Education. Sending a man to the moon. Social Security. Hoover Dam and the TVA. The interstate highway system. Head Start, Public libraries and schools. Developing new vaccines and other drugs. Most of these things involve some private businesses to some extent, the government pays for all of them, which costs lots of money. Even when it's SpaceX sending astronauts to the space station, NASA is paying for it.
The Republican fantasy is that either: 1) Most people would be OK if we just stopped doing these things, or 2) We could do all these things for substantially less money if we just "ran government like a business". You'll notice neither 1) nor 2) ever happens, even when we foolishly give Republicans control of both the Congress and the White House, that's a clue that it's all a fantasy.
Not sure why I wade into the morass that is most comment sections, people “screaming” past each other, an utter waste of time, no minds are changed. I simply would remind you that people of good faith and intentions believe government, from the smallest to the largest, is easily corrupted, inefficient and ultimately intrusive, good day to you.
Great historical perspective. I think the history I remember being taught was a "pointillist" history. Your telling linking WW1 to the shift to US hegemony (dropped mic) and I expect in your next pieces to the near inevitable results of WWII and the rise of fascism. You connect a lot of dots for me. Thanks
This past few weeks I've been reading AT's book on this, Deluge, I recommend it highly.
One thing I've gotten from it is the power of ideas, when they reach the right moment. Ideas like national self-determination, which was a powerful force in rewriting the map of Europe, and the idea of universal suffrage, which completely remade the British political system in a single year. Certain ideas get associated with the past (like empire and restricting voting rights to property-holding men) and then they're dead, and there's no resuscitating them. Cynical people will say history is all about force and violence, and whoever can bring the greater force wins, but ideas have a force all their own.
The American civil war was only some 40 years in the past. Americans had little interest in fighting let alone for Europeans . Paying for the war was insult to injury. Think of today when America embarks on endless wars and endless spending. Those who were adventurers like my grandfather joined the French Foreign Legion. When he came home from WW1 , people feared him. He was a trained killer. I heard of stories that occurred in the taverns on the west side of Chicago. This is not what Americans wanted to become. America is becoming a bunch of neocons under the likes of people like Tooze.
Thanks Adam. Clara Mattei’s ‘Capital Order’ is an essential read for those interested in the dialectical relationship between austerity and fascism. There’s never been greater urgency to understand why we are looking down the barrel of right wing extremism across the globe and how we might prevent it from overwhelming us.
So in response to breakaway inflation, rising unemployment, disarmament, and the return of working-age men from the European theatre, the U.S. government (1) raised interest rates, (2) reduced spending to narrow the deficit, (3) increased barriers to immigration, and (4) increased tariffs. Though all of those policies emerged in response to other factors, and were certainly not a unitary or coordinated government response, they seem extraordinarily logical (other than perhaps tariffs) and measured responses. I would not call these "savage" -- that seems unmeasured. I'd also avoid extraordinarily facile links between U.S. agricultural employment and KKK membership. Many others have looked at the factors that drove the Second Wave of KKK membership growth in the 1920s; aggregate employment statistics don't really tell us a thing.
You make a good argument t hat it wasn't the Versailles Treaty that caused World War II, it was the actions of the US -which were ascribed to the treaty by a failed artist and wallpaper hanger.
More detail of US perfidy in this regard in Michael Hudson's "Super Imperialism" (now in its 3rd edition) and in the front half of his "The Destiny of Civilization: Finance Capitalism, Industrial Capitalism or Socialism."
"It was not just that the idea of international commitment, or the higher logic of macroeconomics had not yet been socialized. The very idea of the US federal government as a substantial intrusion into ordinary life was as yet unfamiliar."
I'd say there's a significant portion of American voters who still - a hundred years later - have not accommodated themselves to the idea of "the US federal government as a substantial intrusion into ordinary life." We call these people Republicans.
Our government does millions of things, and accounts for about a third of our GDP, and yet there are still people walking around in a fantasy, believing that - with just the right guy in power - they could take us back to the days before 1917 (Trump has even talked about eliminating the income tax in favor of higher tariffs, a pre-1917 economic policy if there ever was one.)
Then these fantasy-addled people vote Republican, and sometimes even elect Republicans, and the government never gets smaller, only bigger. Naturally, they read this as a betrayal by "the deep state" rather than draw the obvious conclusion that their fantasy is, in fact, a fantasy.
There's always a third of any crowd that never gets the message.
Yep, that's the exact proportion, if it wasn't for the Goddamned Electoral College we wouldn't have to worry about them.
Yes indeed!
Truer than Steve thinks, I suspect
What, the "Deep State" stuff?
Oh, you have it all described. I think the poster means that as bad as we think they are, the truth is they are far worse. That's certainly my belief.
What, pray tell, does the Federal Government do well that a private company could not do better? When you spend other people’s money, you’re not nearly as focused on bang for the buck, I think this is indisputable, you’re welcome to try. Government employees have very little incentive to do their jobs well, for example the DMV in every state, not models of efficiency. A fantasy perhaps, but one worth building a block at a time.
BTW, I just renewed my license plates online through Wisconsin's DMV, the whole thing took about ten minutes, I got the renewal sticker in the mail in less than a week. You're DMV-bashing is old and tired, like a comedy act that's grown stale.
Health care. Education. Sending a man to the moon. Social Security. Hoover Dam and the TVA. The interstate highway system. Head Start, Public libraries and schools. Developing new vaccines and other drugs. Most of these things involve some private businesses to some extent, the government pays for all of them, which costs lots of money. Even when it's SpaceX sending astronauts to the space station, NASA is paying for it.
The Republican fantasy is that either: 1) Most people would be OK if we just stopped doing these things, or 2) We could do all these things for substantially less money if we just "ran government like a business". You'll notice neither 1) nor 2) ever happens, even when we foolishly give Republicans control of both the Congress and the White House, that's a clue that it's all a fantasy.
Not sure why I wade into the morass that is most comment sections, people “screaming” past each other, an utter waste of time, no minds are changed. I simply would remind you that people of good faith and intentions believe government, from the smallest to the largest, is easily corrupted, inefficient and ultimately intrusive, good day to you.
Thanks for your polite response, I would simply remind you that sometimes people of good faith and intentions are wrong about stuff.
There was a global pandemic in full swing in 1919 - how did that influence the economic situation at the time?
This historical series continues to be fascinating!
Great historical perspective. I think the history I remember being taught was a "pointillist" history. Your telling linking WW1 to the shift to US hegemony (dropped mic) and I expect in your next pieces to the near inevitable results of WWII and the rise of fascism. You connect a lot of dots for me. Thanks
This past few weeks I've been reading AT's book on this, Deluge, I recommend it highly.
One thing I've gotten from it is the power of ideas, when they reach the right moment. Ideas like national self-determination, which was a powerful force in rewriting the map of Europe, and the idea of universal suffrage, which completely remade the British political system in a single year. Certain ideas get associated with the past (like empire and restricting voting rights to property-holding men) and then they're dead, and there's no resuscitating them. Cynical people will say history is all about force and violence, and whoever can bring the greater force wins, but ideas have a force all their own.
Excellent, looking forward to more ...
The American civil war was only some 40 years in the past. Americans had little interest in fighting let alone for Europeans . Paying for the war was insult to injury. Think of today when America embarks on endless wars and endless spending. Those who were adventurers like my grandfather joined the French Foreign Legion. When he came home from WW1 , people feared him. He was a trained killer. I heard of stories that occurred in the taverns on the west side of Chicago. This is not what Americans wanted to become. America is becoming a bunch of neocons under the likes of people like Tooze.
"America is becoming a bunch of neocons under the likes of people like Tooze."
I didn't know he had that much influence?
Thanks Adam. Clara Mattei’s ‘Capital Order’ is an essential read for those interested in the dialectical relationship between austerity and fascism. There’s never been greater urgency to understand why we are looking down the barrel of right wing extremism across the globe and how we might prevent it from overwhelming us.
Great post.
Some interesting contemporary writing about this era and it's aftermath.
Leon Trotsky
Europe and America
(Part 1)
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1926/02/europe.htm
So in response to breakaway inflation, rising unemployment, disarmament, and the return of working-age men from the European theatre, the U.S. government (1) raised interest rates, (2) reduced spending to narrow the deficit, (3) increased barriers to immigration, and (4) increased tariffs. Though all of those policies emerged in response to other factors, and were certainly not a unitary or coordinated government response, they seem extraordinarily logical (other than perhaps tariffs) and measured responses. I would not call these "savage" -- that seems unmeasured. I'd also avoid extraordinarily facile links between U.S. agricultural employment and KKK membership. Many others have looked at the factors that drove the Second Wave of KKK membership growth in the 1920s; aggregate employment statistics don't really tell us a thing.
Really enjoyed this one! Thanks, Lawrence
You make a good argument t hat it wasn't the Versailles Treaty that caused World War II, it was the actions of the US -which were ascribed to the treaty by a failed artist and wallpaper hanger.
More detail of US perfidy in this regard in Michael Hudson's "Super Imperialism" (now in its 3rd edition) and in the front half of his "The Destiny of Civilization: Finance Capitalism, Industrial Capitalism or Socialism."
Might the US response have been different if the U.S. had not been run by Mrs. Wilson in the last year or so of the Wilson Administration?