The tense stand off on Columbia University campus between student protestors, the university administration, counter-protestors and law enforcement, has become the object of passionate engagement and moral opprobrium across the United States and far beyond.
Good job uncovering some of the transparency and accounting issues. Also good to show how elite universities are actually Billion Dollar conglomerates making profits, while being untaxed as non profits. It would be great to know where the money and goods produced go. As you note, undergrads are a minor part of the production system, and a minor "product line".
This flyer is blatantly anti-Semitic and is here presented as a “fascinating diagram.” (In addition to being anti-Semitic it is also ofc without empirical basis if for no other reason than the students can’t possibly understand the university’s financial infrastructure.) Alongside the Saudi Arabia comment above, the university is surely more financially dependent on Chinese companies and Chinese students and has a global center in Beijing—all this without mention of a “reactionary or nefarious” (again quoting the flyer) elite working behind the scene.
If faculty members who purport to be sympathetic to the students’ cause don’t call out or even recognize obvious anti-Semitism, it’s no wonder many people feel universities and their faculties have lost their way.
I am not concerned here with whether the flyer is anti-semitic per se. It certainly seems true that CUAD is a kind of student coalition working toward divesting "all economic and academic stakes in Israel." But, yes, exactly everything else in the short flyer text is factually wrong.
1. It refers to "liberating" Palestine.
2. It casually takes for granted Israeli "apartheid."
3. It expresses a desire to be in solidarity with "oppressed people worldwide."
4. It states its desire to end "all interlocking systems of oppression."
None of these phrases are self-evidently true. They are refutative enthymemes. Here is an example:
"Everything bad that happens in the world is because of Jews and bicyclers."
"Why the bicyclers?"
Many people consider this to be an example of anti-semitism. In some cases, it may be. The true irony, however, lies in the implicit cognitive acknowledgment of the fact that Jews have unjustly been used as scapegoats throughout history. Thus juxtaposing them with bicyclers is a novel and attention grabbing distraction: a red herring fallacy which, rather than begging the question "Why?" results in "Why the bicyclers?"
What I am saying is that the information implied by the rhetorical terms "liberating Palestine," "Israeli apartheid," "oppressed people," and "interlocking systems of oppression" is in inverse proportion to the actual and established truth they hold.
I hope that makes sense, Mr Ruiter. I don't know how to be less obfuscatory or lame. Do you?
The student movement behind the flyer is full of amazing young Jewish people, as are universities across the country. Jews are many of my deepest relationships. You are simply throwing chaff in the air because you hate Palestinians and want to exterminate them but cant defend those propositions publically.
Using a few token Jews to try to legitimize an antisemitic Islamofascist movement that calls for the destruction of Israel won’t work. Sorry but things aren’t going to work out well for your terrorist rats hiding in their tunnels while holding innocent civilians hostages. Have a nice day.
I mean, no, that doesn't really make sense. I get the how the bicycler bit is an antisemitic canard, but that is not what's happening here? The flyer stands for the proposition that the Palestinian people are oppressed and that by standing in solidarity with all oppressed peoples worldwide, the students stand with them.
The only way I can see someone taking issue with that is if they don't believe that oppression exists, which seems to be the crux of it here. You (appear to) believe that the Palestinian people are not oppressed and are basically whining about nothing. I think that is facially absurd and indicative of your character.
What is boils down to is whether you believe that Israel is doing, or has done, wrong in Palestine. If you believe (as it seems you do?) that Israel has treated the Palestinian people fairly, not illegally seized land and established settlements in the West Bank with the backing of state power, there is no oppression, there is no apartheid etc. etc., then I can see how this would all seem like so much antisemitic bullshit. However, if you believed those things to be true, would that not change your perspective?
IF you accept the premise that Israel has done no wrong, then I absolutely understand your point. I do not accept that premise though.
Exactly, in some people's minds, it's just not possible that Columbia's students could be motivated by the deaths of tens of thousands of Palestinians, occurring right now in front of our very eyes, no, we must search for some DEEPER motivation, which to nobody's surprise turns out to be antisemitism.
I very explicitly stated that my issue with the flyer is not whether it is anti-Semitic. And I went to pains to show how the bicycle joke is also not necessarily anti-Semitic. You are not really reading, you are only hearing what you want to hear.
The “liberation” of Palestine is a very serious subject. But whether its oppression comes from without (i.e. Israel) or from a system of internal violent extremist anti-semitic ideology is patently unclear. I would maintain there are elements of both. This is worthy of lengthy informed discussion. But pamphlets and protest movements like this do two things. They reduce the seriousness of the heart rending Palestinian plight to flag-waving nonsense, at the same time as they threaten the precarious existence of the Jewish state by fanning the flames of racist sentiment. And that cuts both ways. If recent history is any indication, Palestine either a. doesn’t want to be liberated or b. will only accept liberation under the condition that the Jews must be expelled "from the river to the sea.” IF liberating Palestine comes at the cost of the existence of a Jewish state, I am against it and cannot sympathise with or accept the stated CUAD resolution. You caught me. That is indeed indicative of my character.
I disagree with the categorisation of Israel as an "apartheid" state. Equating the separateness and segregation between Muslims and Jews in Israel, Gaza and the illegal West Bank settlements with the South African system of apartheid is an insult to the black and coloured South African majority cruelly ruled over by a white minority. That is a fact. Another one is that Jewish and Muslim citizens of Israel both enjoy equality under the law. Granted, I suspect this is a point of departure in a conversation that would quickly become very messy.
Solidarity with “oppressed people worldwide” sounds like an admirable enough cause. It casts a very wide and ambiguous net, though, which makes it not much more than a platitude. Just saying you’re an advocate for oppressed people doesn’t mean you actually are one, especially when your co-chauvinists are deliberately misinterpreting, shouting down and hurling lame personal insults at anyone suspected of not toeing your pre-packaged no-brain-required party line.
Ending “all interlocking systems of oppression:” These CUAD people better be careful what they wish for. Institutions take a long time to establish. They can also become corrupt and malignant. And yet destroying all of them risks throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
As I said, I don’t really get what you were trying to say with the bicycle point. I guess i thought you were going for something about covert antisemitism being baked into rhetorical assumptions. Apparently not, so I’m at a loss about what your original comment was trying to communicate.
“Equating the separateness and segregation between Muslims and Jews in Israel, Gaza and the illegal West Bank settlements with the South African system of apartheid is an insult to the black and coloured South African majority cruelly ruled over by a white minority. That is a fact.”
Interesting. You should inform the South African government of this. For some reason, they seem to hold the opposite view. How strange. Surely you know better though.
I’m not sure why you think this is somehow a binary choice between Hamas and Likud. There are in fact middle points between these poles, ones that respect the fundamental dignity of Palestinians and Israelis to like in an equal society (or even two mutually respectful societies, though seems impossible in a post-Oslo world).
Shouting down? We are having an argument in Adam Tooze’s Substack comments lol. Try to retain perspective here. I happen to think your position is morally abhorrent, idk what kind of tone policing you expect from me? I’m sorry you’re so offended but I can do no other.
I think you’re really really mad at other people (brown people who have to temerity to demand their dignity) and want to take it out vicariously by watching the NYPD or National Guard crack skulls on college campuses.
Here’s my slogan: “You are not a thoughtful, empathetic, or smart person.”
I think we can see from this discussion right here that it's impossible to justify the Israeli apartheid system, which is probably why Israel's apologists are so quick the play the antisemitism card instead.
You said it: it seems impossible in a post-Oslo world. And the binary choice presented comes from Hamas, who refuses to negotiate in good faith, not from me. Surely you know this though.
I thought my slogan was quite good. Yours is just a cheap shot. You've really gotta work on your powers of concentration. This isn't about me, my hidden anger or my powers of empathy. I think you're projecting.
Many hostage families in Israel have spoken out against Netanyahu and his apparent lack of concern for the hostages. In fact, he seems much more intent on killing Palestinians than freeing the hostages, and shows an obvious lack of interest in any negotiations that might free them. He also seems fine with the hostages starving, as long as he gets to starve a couple million Palestinians at the same time.
I guess we don't really know if the oppression of Black south Africans was because of the white apartheid system or the internal dynamics of the anti-white armed and violent ANC.
"It casually takes for granted Israeli "apartheid."
But it's a flyer, right? Not a doctoral dissertation. Nobody's taking anything for granted, the people who wrote the flyer could explain in detail the many justifications for this claim, but it's a FLYER and there isn't room.
We do this all the time, by the way. We take one thing that protesters chant as the entirety of their thinking ("From the river to the sea!") because we can't be bothered to learn what they think.
It is not antisemitism to ask about the university’s financial interests, nor to advocate for the Palestinians. What is antisemitic is to play on one of the oldest antisemitic tropes out there: that Jews control the world through their” nefarious” financial power. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_antisemitism
Tooze knows this and not only didn’t call out the students for it; he republished the flyer, calling it “fascinating.”
Moreover note that here Zionist means Jews, since business are not run by political actors but human beings with religious affiliations.
And ofc in addition it is empirically incorrect—the whole point of the essay (and one of the students demands) is that the university’s financial interests are not transparent. You are calling for financial transparency—why bother if you know the university is controlled by Jews? Moreover, regardless of who runs companies, influence over the university is unclear, since investments in stocks via index funds and the like provides no control. (And again if the students were really interested in the university not being implicated in entities involved in repressive activities I would think a focus on China, SA etc would be warranted too.
If you believe in the students’ cause and are not antisemitic, then you should call out obvious antisemitism. And ofc stick to fact based arguments. Since Tooze knows this is antisemitism and presumably likes to make fact based arguments, one has to ask what’s going on.
"The divestment proposal focuses specifically on publicly traded stocks and bond holdings."
Publicly traded stocks (like Microsoft) are...public. This is knowable information. If you have evidence to refute it then by all means, but it is not opaque.
I don't think it's antisemitic to point out that there are companies which invest and do business with the Israeli government in a military/security/intelligence context. Seems strange to contest that. The crux of the issue is whether you think there are military/security/intelligence actions done by the Israeli government, in service of Zionist ends, which are morally repugnant. Personally, I do.
“Criticizing Israeli policy isn’t antisemitic” - said every antisemite everywhere. Any specific policy you have a gripe with or just when you see the word “Israel.”
yeah, killing 12,000 children in Gaza, illegal settlements in the West Bank, violence by settlers in the West Bank, disruptions of aid to civilians in Gaza resulting in starvation, reckless use of explosives resulting in unacceptable levels of civilian deaths, airstrikes on hospitals refugee camps and churches, the Flour Massacre, the killing of journalists, actions by the Netzah Yehuda unit.
There’s probably a few more, but that’s just off the top of my head.
Yeah gang raping Israeli women, slicing their breasts off, putting babies in ovens, murdering elderly people, torturing and kidnapping 200 innocent civilians no bother to you. But you do you bro.
Do you think i support Hamas? I don’t, those things are abhorrent. The United States government isn’t an ally of Hamas however. American citizens have fewer levers to pull to influence their conduct, unlike Israel which is a US ally (though Netanyahu’s premiership makes this increasingly dubious). As soon as the State Department announces weapons shipments to Hamas in violation of the Leahy Law, I’ll object to that too.
No, the flyer is not blatantly anti-Semitic, because being anti-Zionist is not anti-Semitism. Singling out Israeli foreign policy when thousands are being slaughtered while the US government supports it is not anti-Semitic, that's being relevant. As for the sinister "Chinese" who seem to be both reactionaries (because they're capitalists?) and Communists, this kind of amalgamation is still a tool of political swindlers. The underlying premise that any notion of an elite is thereby anti-Semitic is both ludicrous on its face and special pleading, as it is only meant to defend Israel's genocidal assault.
it is unreasonable to expect a protest movement directed towards a specific cause to have established views on every other thing happening around the world. it is ok to focus on one goal at a time. if you disagree with those goals, fine, but just say that then. this is obfuscatory and lame.
"i'm just wondering" oh fuck off with 'i'm just asking questions' framing. it is, again, obfuscatory and lame. if you have something to say, say it with your chest.
criticism of Israel =/= antisemitism. obviously antisemitism exists (to an increasingly worrisome degree) and is bad. it is sloppy and dishonest to (attempt to) characterize all or the majority of pro-palestinian messaging as "attacks on Jews."
Trying to bankrupt a country seems pretty extreme, especially given on the net, and given how hostile and violent neighboring Muslim countries have been to Israel, Israel seems pretty extraordinary in their tact and attempt to coexist and not create unnecessary civilian casualties in their defense and counterattack of these terrorist groups. And an attempt to bankrupt a country isn't pro-palestinian...being pro Palestinian would be protesting against the genocidal ideology of hamas for the last 10 years so this wouldn't have happened
I suppose you could argue that the anti-apartheid protesters who called for divestment from South Africa were "trying to bankrupt a country" although what I think they were actually trying to do was end apartheid. And in the end they succeeded, no bankrupting needed.
The notion that Israel's bankruptcy might be required before it would ever agree to end its own apartheid system tells us more about Israel than about the protesters.
Thanks to China, Saudi seems to have come to its senses over Yemen in the last couple of years. (That is my impression anyway). And of course now I can't imagine any Islamic country wanting to take on Yemen given how heroic it looks.
I'll admit to being confused. How heroic does Yemen look? Assume you're referring to the Houthi Shiites. Who started a civil war in 2014. Leading to one of the worst humanitarian crises in the world. I suppose if you're talking about the ability to resist the Saudi-led effort to keep the government in power, that would be heroic. But the rest seems to be a hot mess.
The Houthi are a very small subset of the majority Yemeni group, and it is Saudis that created the humanitarian crisis - after all it was the Saudis that bombed the port to block food imports. Your are being deliberately misleading to pretend the civil war rather than Saudi interference is the issue (Saudi + US/UK etc of course).
The heroic part is attacking ships that want to deliver weapons to Israel. Something that every rathional country should want to do but no one else does.
Again, I think you and I have different notions of heroism. Shooting off missiles at commercial shipping seems about as heroic as American pilots mining Haiphong harbor during Vietnam.
And isn't it true that almost all weapons deliveries to Israel come from the US or Germany? How much of that shipping is routed through Suez?
The protestors are anti-white. They have simply decided Jews are white because they look white and are western and are very successful (this privileged).
Arabs or Chinese or whoever aren't white, so anti-white hatred doesn't apply to them.
Incredible the lengths some people will go to in ignoring the obvious motivations of the protesters by inventing these bizarre "alternative" explanations.
We're all seeing the destruction of Gaza, the massive and indiscriminate killing of civilians and an engineered famine. Isn't it POSSIBLE that these student protesters are reacting to THESE things? I know you probably don't care if the Israelis murder a million Palestinians, but just for a moment try to imagine that others might.
The military in Myanmar has been engaged for decades in a genocide of the ethnic Rohingya people. Is the US government providing weapons for the genocide? Does the US military provide support? Do US police departments train with the Myanmar military in crowd-suppression techniques? Looking at the companies listed in the flyer, to what extent do are they involved in Myanmar?
Please try to do one-thousandth the research that these students have done before you make your lazy point that they should be protesting EVERYTHING or they're guilty of antisemitism.
I think the US providing weapons to Israel is dumb, but we could end US support for Israel tomorrow and they would be just as dominant over the Palestinians as they are today. Israel has a GDP of 525B, they don't need our money.
I don't think these people* are guilty of anti-semitism. I bet your average protestor finds anti-semitism disgusting. I think they hate white people and they have decided that Jews are white. Anti-semites hate Jews for being Jews, not whites for being white.
*Obviously, I'm speaking of the white protestors only hating white people. Non-white protestors may indeed be anti-semitic as well. Nearly all Arabs are.
“Zionist orgs” involved in secret nefarious Columbia funding with crazy person organizational chart linking it all back to the Jews. Nah that flier isn't antisemitic...
Very interesting Prof Tooze. Esp the observation that CU could do better in a passive index fund if its financial managers weren't seduced by fashions like private equity and hedge funds.
May I ask a related question... Apparently, after all Pres Shafik did, failed utterly to defend the academic autonomy of the Univ in Congress, encouraged its persecutors, called in the NYPD after the exec comm of the Univ senate voted unanimously against her, suspended students on same terms, after strong stmts by Columbia AAUP and national AAUP ("she threw Columbia under the bus"), after talk of a resolution of censure, the Columbia Univ senate could only "pass a resolution establishing task force to recommend ‘possible further Senate action’ on recent administrative policies". Is this not a colossal failure and abdication of duty? Here's the Spectator story
Columbia investing in sham private equity stuff reminds me of Harvard dumping a bunch of money into George W Bush's failing oil venture at a prodigious time for him to bail and become "owner" of the Texas Rangers and keeping failing his way up from there. I wonder if the fruit of any of Columbia's investments will end up being as destructive? Guess time will tell!
This was a wandering analysis of Columbia’s financial management. What did that flyer listing “Zionist Cultural Orgs”, and the names of trustees have to do with anything? You just had to find a way to insert your anti-Israel bias I guess. The last half of the analysis was well done.
That you see in this elaborate chart that purports to reveal the secret behind Columbia’s functioning (guess what? It’s the Jews!) a thoughtful attempt to grapple with power as opposed to an anti semitic conspiracy theory is rather concerning.
The flier doesn’t purport to reveal the secret behind the university’s functioning by blaming the Jews. It shows how university leadership, local the security apparatus, and powerful moneyed interests, especially the arms industry, collude to silence and intimidate a largely Jewish-led freedom struggle in the United States.
After a few hours to think about this map, I am floored by the "manufacturing consent" part of it. I cannot think of a single statement that either American Jewish Committee or American Jewish Congress has put out in the last 6 months. I am also reminded of the map of Zionist institutions in Boston which included almost every mainstream Jewish institution including synagogues and over which the ADL was livid. Abolitionists once asked their adherents to disassociate from any church that supported slavery (it did not go well) but I wonder if the student organizers would actually name a church/synagogue religious institution that openly supports Israel if they could get that information, even if the rabbi is like Rachel Timoner and does not hesitate to criticize Israel.
Just a suggestion, if you're trying to make a case against these protests: You could argue that the Columbia students are wrong, that they don't understand the conflict, that Israel is justified in doing what it's doing. You're not obligated to go the additional step of claiming that hundreds of Columbia undergraduates want to kill all the Jews. And yes, I do understand that would require more effort on your part.
This is a fascinating insight into the increasingly perverse incentive structures of "elite" American universities.
Good job uncovering some of the transparency and accounting issues. Also good to show how elite universities are actually Billion Dollar conglomerates making profits, while being untaxed as non profits. It would be great to know where the money and goods produced go. As you note, undergrads are a minor part of the production system, and a minor "product line".
This flyer is blatantly anti-Semitic and is here presented as a “fascinating diagram.” (In addition to being anti-Semitic it is also ofc without empirical basis if for no other reason than the students can’t possibly understand the university’s financial infrastructure.) Alongside the Saudi Arabia comment above, the university is surely more financially dependent on Chinese companies and Chinese students and has a global center in Beijing—all this without mention of a “reactionary or nefarious” (again quoting the flyer) elite working behind the scene.
If faculty members who purport to be sympathetic to the students’ cause don’t call out or even recognize obvious anti-Semitism, it’s no wonder many people feel universities and their faculties have lost their way.
The flyer is not antisemitic? Criticizing Israeli policy and those who work to make that policy possible is not the same thing as antisemitism.
Is any of the info on the flyer factually wrong?
I am not concerned here with whether the flyer is anti-semitic per se. It certainly seems true that CUAD is a kind of student coalition working toward divesting "all economic and academic stakes in Israel." But, yes, exactly everything else in the short flyer text is factually wrong.
1. It refers to "liberating" Palestine.
2. It casually takes for granted Israeli "apartheid."
3. It expresses a desire to be in solidarity with "oppressed people worldwide."
4. It states its desire to end "all interlocking systems of oppression."
None of these phrases are self-evidently true. They are refutative enthymemes. Here is an example:
"Everything bad that happens in the world is because of Jews and bicyclers."
"Why the bicyclers?"
Many people consider this to be an example of anti-semitism. In some cases, it may be. The true irony, however, lies in the implicit cognitive acknowledgment of the fact that Jews have unjustly been used as scapegoats throughout history. Thus juxtaposing them with bicyclers is a novel and attention grabbing distraction: a red herring fallacy which, rather than begging the question "Why?" results in "Why the bicyclers?"
What I am saying is that the information implied by the rhetorical terms "liberating Palestine," "Israeli apartheid," "oppressed people," and "interlocking systems of oppression" is in inverse proportion to the actual and established truth they hold.
I hope that makes sense, Mr Ruiter. I don't know how to be less obfuscatory or lame. Do you?
Incredibly stupid comment. The flyer is not antisemitic at all and anyone saying it is simply loves the slaughter of Palestinians.
Antisemitic gaslighting. Any problem with the slaughter of Jews? Forget October 7 already?
The student movement behind the flyer is full of amazing young Jewish people, as are universities across the country. Jews are many of my deepest relationships. You are simply throwing chaff in the air because you hate Palestinians and want to exterminate them but cant defend those propositions publically.
Using a few token Jews to try to legitimize an antisemitic Islamofascist movement that calls for the destruction of Israel won’t work. Sorry but things aren’t going to work out well for your terrorist rats hiding in their tunnels while holding innocent civilians hostages. Have a nice day.
I mean, no, that doesn't really make sense. I get the how the bicycler bit is an antisemitic canard, but that is not what's happening here? The flyer stands for the proposition that the Palestinian people are oppressed and that by standing in solidarity with all oppressed peoples worldwide, the students stand with them.
The only way I can see someone taking issue with that is if they don't believe that oppression exists, which seems to be the crux of it here. You (appear to) believe that the Palestinian people are not oppressed and are basically whining about nothing. I think that is facially absurd and indicative of your character.
What is boils down to is whether you believe that Israel is doing, or has done, wrong in Palestine. If you believe (as it seems you do?) that Israel has treated the Palestinian people fairly, not illegally seized land and established settlements in the West Bank with the backing of state power, there is no oppression, there is no apartheid etc. etc., then I can see how this would all seem like so much antisemitic bullshit. However, if you believed those things to be true, would that not change your perspective?
IF you accept the premise that Israel has done no wrong, then I absolutely understand your point. I do not accept that premise though.
Exactly, in some people's minds, it's just not possible that Columbia's students could be motivated by the deaths of tens of thousands of Palestinians, occurring right now in front of our very eyes, no, we must search for some DEEPER motivation, which to nobody's surprise turns out to be antisemitism.
I very explicitly stated that my issue with the flyer is not whether it is anti-Semitic. And I went to pains to show how the bicycle joke is also not necessarily anti-Semitic. You are not really reading, you are only hearing what you want to hear.
The “liberation” of Palestine is a very serious subject. But whether its oppression comes from without (i.e. Israel) or from a system of internal violent extremist anti-semitic ideology is patently unclear. I would maintain there are elements of both. This is worthy of lengthy informed discussion. But pamphlets and protest movements like this do two things. They reduce the seriousness of the heart rending Palestinian plight to flag-waving nonsense, at the same time as they threaten the precarious existence of the Jewish state by fanning the flames of racist sentiment. And that cuts both ways. If recent history is any indication, Palestine either a. doesn’t want to be liberated or b. will only accept liberation under the condition that the Jews must be expelled "from the river to the sea.” IF liberating Palestine comes at the cost of the existence of a Jewish state, I am against it and cannot sympathise with or accept the stated CUAD resolution. You caught me. That is indeed indicative of my character.
I disagree with the categorisation of Israel as an "apartheid" state. Equating the separateness and segregation between Muslims and Jews in Israel, Gaza and the illegal West Bank settlements with the South African system of apartheid is an insult to the black and coloured South African majority cruelly ruled over by a white minority. That is a fact. Another one is that Jewish and Muslim citizens of Israel both enjoy equality under the law. Granted, I suspect this is a point of departure in a conversation that would quickly become very messy.
Solidarity with “oppressed people worldwide” sounds like an admirable enough cause. It casts a very wide and ambiguous net, though, which makes it not much more than a platitude. Just saying you’re an advocate for oppressed people doesn’t mean you actually are one, especially when your co-chauvinists are deliberately misinterpreting, shouting down and hurling lame personal insults at anyone suspected of not toeing your pre-packaged no-brain-required party line.
Ending “all interlocking systems of oppression:” These CUAD people better be careful what they wish for. Institutions take a long time to establish. They can also become corrupt and malignant. And yet destroying all of them risks throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
How about this for a slogan: "Free the Hostages"
As I said, I don’t really get what you were trying to say with the bicycle point. I guess i thought you were going for something about covert antisemitism being baked into rhetorical assumptions. Apparently not, so I’m at a loss about what your original comment was trying to communicate.
“Equating the separateness and segregation between Muslims and Jews in Israel, Gaza and the illegal West Bank settlements with the South African system of apartheid is an insult to the black and coloured South African majority cruelly ruled over by a white minority. That is a fact.”
Interesting. You should inform the South African government of this. For some reason, they seem to hold the opposite view. How strange. Surely you know better though.
I’m not sure why you think this is somehow a binary choice between Hamas and Likud. There are in fact middle points between these poles, ones that respect the fundamental dignity of Palestinians and Israelis to like in an equal society (or even two mutually respectful societies, though seems impossible in a post-Oslo world).
Shouting down? We are having an argument in Adam Tooze’s Substack comments lol. Try to retain perspective here. I happen to think your position is morally abhorrent, idk what kind of tone policing you expect from me? I’m sorry you’re so offended but I can do no other.
I think you’re really really mad at other people (brown people who have to temerity to demand their dignity) and want to take it out vicariously by watching the NYPD or National Guard crack skulls on college campuses.
Here’s my slogan: “You are not a thoughtful, empathetic, or smart person.”
A bit wordy but I can workshop it.
I think we can see from this discussion right here that it's impossible to justify the Israeli apartheid system, which is probably why Israel's apologists are so quick the play the antisemitism card instead.
You said it: it seems impossible in a post-Oslo world. And the binary choice presented comes from Hamas, who refuses to negotiate in good faith, not from me. Surely you know this though.
I thought my slogan was quite good. Yours is just a cheap shot. You've really gotta work on your powers of concentration. This isn't about me, my hidden anger or my powers of empathy. I think you're projecting.
Many hostage families in Israel have spoken out against Netanyahu and his apparent lack of concern for the hostages. In fact, he seems much more intent on killing Palestinians than freeing the hostages, and shows an obvious lack of interest in any negotiations that might free them. He also seems fine with the hostages starving, as long as he gets to starve a couple million Palestinians at the same time.
What a stupid comment.
I guess we don't really know if the oppression of Black south Africans was because of the white apartheid system or the internal dynamics of the anti-white armed and violent ANC.
Do you actually hear yourself ?
Level of dumbness coaxed in big words.
More tedious nonsense. You simply hate Palestinians and love their slaughter. It’s obvious.
"It casually takes for granted Israeli "apartheid."
But it's a flyer, right? Not a doctoral dissertation. Nobody's taking anything for granted, the people who wrote the flyer could explain in detail the many justifications for this claim, but it's a FLYER and there isn't room.
We do this all the time, by the way. We take one thing that protesters chant as the entirety of their thinking ("From the river to the sea!") because we can't be bothered to learn what they think.
Dude this isn't hard.
The protestors are anti-white.
Jews are officially white now.
You unleashed dark forces and now the revolution eats their own.
I unleashed dark forces? Bro I don't live anywhere near New York, who are you talking to? Go back to reddit.
You have unleashed the Dark Side of the Force, Luke!
It is not antisemitism to ask about the university’s financial interests, nor to advocate for the Palestinians. What is antisemitic is to play on one of the oldest antisemitic tropes out there: that Jews control the world through their” nefarious” financial power. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_antisemitism
Tooze knows this and not only didn’t call out the students for it; he republished the flyer, calling it “fascinating.”
Moreover note that here Zionist means Jews, since business are not run by political actors but human beings with religious affiliations.
And ofc in addition it is empirically incorrect—the whole point of the essay (and one of the students demands) is that the university’s financial interests are not transparent. You are calling for financial transparency—why bother if you know the university is controlled by Jews? Moreover, regardless of who runs companies, influence over the university is unclear, since investments in stocks via index funds and the like provides no control. (And again if the students were really interested in the university not being implicated in entities involved in repressive activities I would think a focus on China, SA etc would be warranted too.
If you believe in the students’ cause and are not antisemitic, then you should call out obvious antisemitism. And ofc stick to fact based arguments. Since Tooze knows this is antisemitism and presumably likes to make fact based arguments, one has to ask what’s going on.
Did you read the essay?
"The divestment proposal focuses specifically on publicly traded stocks and bond holdings."
Publicly traded stocks (like Microsoft) are...public. This is knowable information. If you have evidence to refute it then by all means, but it is not opaque.
I don't think it's antisemitic to point out that there are companies which invest and do business with the Israeli government in a military/security/intelligence context. Seems strange to contest that. The crux of the issue is whether you think there are military/security/intelligence actions done by the Israeli government, in service of Zionist ends, which are morally repugnant. Personally, I do.
"You are calling for financial transparency—why bother if you know the university is controlled by Jews?"
This thing you're calling for is inconsistent with my ridiculous parody of your views, obviously this is all YOUR fault.
“Criticizing Israeli policy isn’t antisemitic” - said every antisemite everywhere. Any specific policy you have a gripe with or just when you see the word “Israel.”
yeah, killing 12,000 children in Gaza, illegal settlements in the West Bank, violence by settlers in the West Bank, disruptions of aid to civilians in Gaza resulting in starvation, reckless use of explosives resulting in unacceptable levels of civilian deaths, airstrikes on hospitals refugee camps and churches, the Flour Massacre, the killing of journalists, actions by the Netzah Yehuda unit.
There’s probably a few more, but that’s just off the top of my head.
Yeah gang raping Israeli women, slicing their breasts off, putting babies in ovens, murdering elderly people, torturing and kidnapping 200 innocent civilians no bother to you. But you do you bro.
Do you think i support Hamas? I don’t, those things are abhorrent. The United States government isn’t an ally of Hamas however. American citizens have fewer levers to pull to influence their conduct, unlike Israel which is a US ally (though Netanyahu’s premiership makes this increasingly dubious). As soon as the State Department announces weapons shipments to Hamas in violation of the Leahy Law, I’ll object to that too.
No, the flyer is not blatantly anti-Semitic, because being anti-Zionist is not anti-Semitism. Singling out Israeli foreign policy when thousands are being slaughtered while the US government supports it is not anti-Semitic, that's being relevant. As for the sinister "Chinese" who seem to be both reactionaries (because they're capitalists?) and Communists, this kind of amalgamation is still a tool of political swindlers. The underlying premise that any notion of an elite is thereby anti-Semitic is both ludicrous on its face and special pleading, as it is only meant to defend Israel's genocidal assault.
Your views are both hateful and contemptible.
lmao thank you for showing the infant brain of a genocide approver.
Are these students also asking to divest from Saudi Arabia because of their actions in Yemen?
it is unreasonable to expect a protest movement directed towards a specific cause to have established views on every other thing happening around the world. it is ok to focus on one goal at a time. if you disagree with those goals, fine, but just say that then. this is obfuscatory and lame.
I'm just wondering if this protect is about fairness or to attack Jews.
"i'm just wondering" oh fuck off with 'i'm just asking questions' framing. it is, again, obfuscatory and lame. if you have something to say, say it with your chest.
criticism of Israel =/= antisemitism. obviously antisemitism exists (to an increasingly worrisome degree) and is bad. it is sloppy and dishonest to (attempt to) characterize all or the majority of pro-palestinian messaging as "attacks on Jews."
Trying to bankrupt a country seems pretty extreme, especially given on the net, and given how hostile and violent neighboring Muslim countries have been to Israel, Israel seems pretty extraordinary in their tact and attempt to coexist and not create unnecessary civilian casualties in their defense and counterattack of these terrorist groups. And an attempt to bankrupt a country isn't pro-palestinian...being pro Palestinian would be protesting against the genocidal ideology of hamas for the last 10 years so this wouldn't have happened
Are you suggesting that if Columbia divested from Microsoft et al. the Israeli economy would collapse? Are you reading what you're typing?
"Israel seems pretty extraordinary in their tact and...not create unnecessary civilian casualties"
You are not a serious person.
These people want to start a widespread movement.
I suppose you could argue that the anti-apartheid protesters who called for divestment from South Africa were "trying to bankrupt a country" although what I think they were actually trying to do was end apartheid. And in the end they succeeded, no bankrupting needed.
The notion that Israel's bankruptcy might be required before it would ever agree to end its own apartheid system tells us more about Israel than about the protesters.
Israel has not been in charge of Gaza since 2005.
An organizational chart linking it all back to “Zionist orgs” Seems fairly obvious who these Islamofascists antisemites are going after.
Thanks to China, Saudi seems to have come to its senses over Yemen in the last couple of years. (That is my impression anyway). And of course now I can't imagine any Islamic country wanting to take on Yemen given how heroic it looks.
I'll admit to being confused. How heroic does Yemen look? Assume you're referring to the Houthi Shiites. Who started a civil war in 2014. Leading to one of the worst humanitarian crises in the world. I suppose if you're talking about the ability to resist the Saudi-led effort to keep the government in power, that would be heroic. But the rest seems to be a hot mess.
The Houthi are a very small subset of the majority Yemeni group, and it is Saudis that created the humanitarian crisis - after all it was the Saudis that bombed the port to block food imports. Your are being deliberately misleading to pretend the civil war rather than Saudi interference is the issue (Saudi + US/UK etc of course).
The heroic part is attacking ships that want to deliver weapons to Israel. Something that every rathional country should want to do but no one else does.
Again, I think you and I have different notions of heroism. Shooting off missiles at commercial shipping seems about as heroic as American pilots mining Haiphong harbor during Vietnam.
And isn't it true that almost all weapons deliveries to Israel come from the US or Germany? How much of that shipping is routed through Suez?
And how much of that shipping is targeted by US UK or in fact anyone.
Little country taking little steps in the right direction while everyone else runs in the wrong direction.
What would you call heroic? I can't see anything right now unless you count Hamas (i'm guessing you don't).
The protestors are anti-white. They have simply decided Jews are white because they look white and are western and are very successful (this privileged).
Arabs or Chinese or whoever aren't white, so anti-white hatred doesn't apply to them.
Incredible the lengths some people will go to in ignoring the obvious motivations of the protesters by inventing these bizarre "alternative" explanations.
We're all seeing the destruction of Gaza, the massive and indiscriminate killing of civilians and an engineered famine. Isn't it POSSIBLE that these student protesters are reacting to THESE things? I know you probably don't care if the Israelis murder a million Palestinians, but just for a moment try to imagine that others might.
Worse tragedies happen all around the world for less justifiable reasons, but they don't care about those to nearly the same degree.
The military in Myanmar has been engaged for decades in a genocide of the ethnic Rohingya people. Is the US government providing weapons for the genocide? Does the US military provide support? Do US police departments train with the Myanmar military in crowd-suppression techniques? Looking at the companies listed in the flyer, to what extent do are they involved in Myanmar?
Please try to do one-thousandth the research that these students have done before you make your lazy point that they should be protesting EVERYTHING or they're guilty of antisemitism.
I think the US providing weapons to Israel is dumb, but we could end US support for Israel tomorrow and they would be just as dominant over the Palestinians as they are today. Israel has a GDP of 525B, they don't need our money.
I don't think these people* are guilty of anti-semitism. I bet your average protestor finds anti-semitism disgusting. I think they hate white people and they have decided that Jews are white. Anti-semites hate Jews for being Jews, not whites for being white.
*Obviously, I'm speaking of the white protestors only hating white people. Non-white protestors may indeed be anti-semitic as well. Nearly all Arabs are.
"I think they hate white people"
It's amazing this power you have to read the minds of other people. You should turn that into an act, you could play Vegas, or maybe Branson.
Perhaps because their own government isn’t complicit in those “worse tragedies” (whatever those are)?
Absolutely fascinating, thank you.
Analysis like this is why I subscribe.
The lines between antisemitism, support for Palestine/Palestinians, and criticism of Israel have been blurred in recent years by the widespread governmental and institutional adoption of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s definition of antisemitism, which includes criticism of Israel as illustrative examples. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_definition_of_antisemitism; https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism
“Zionist orgs” involved in secret nefarious Columbia funding with crazy person organizational chart linking it all back to the Jews. Nah that flier isn't antisemitic...
Very interesting Prof Tooze. Esp the observation that CU could do better in a passive index fund if its financial managers weren't seduced by fashions like private equity and hedge funds.
May I ask a related question... Apparently, after all Pres Shafik did, failed utterly to defend the academic autonomy of the Univ in Congress, encouraged its persecutors, called in the NYPD after the exec comm of the Univ senate voted unanimously against her, suspended students on same terms, after strong stmts by Columbia AAUP and national AAUP ("she threw Columbia under the bus"), after talk of a resolution of censure, the Columbia Univ senate could only "pass a resolution establishing task force to recommend ‘possible further Senate action’ on recent administrative policies". Is this not a colossal failure and abdication of duty? Here's the Spectator story
https://www.columbiaspectator.com/news/2024/04/26/university-senate-passes-resolution-establishing-task-force-to-recommend-possible-further-senate-action-on-recent-administrative-policies/
Columbia investing in sham private equity stuff reminds me of Harvard dumping a bunch of money into George W Bush's failing oil venture at a prodigious time for him to bail and become "owner" of the Texas Rangers and keeping failing his way up from there. I wonder if the fruit of any of Columbia's investments will end up being as destructive? Guess time will tell!
Thank you Adam for such enlightening piece. From a point of view of someone outside North America, I had no idea what this all about.
This was a wandering analysis of Columbia’s financial management. What did that flyer listing “Zionist Cultural Orgs”, and the names of trustees have to do with anything? You just had to find a way to insert your anti-Israel bias I guess. The last half of the analysis was well done.
That you see in this elaborate chart that purports to reveal the secret behind Columbia’s functioning (guess what? It’s the Jews!) a thoughtful attempt to grapple with power as opposed to an anti semitic conspiracy theory is rather concerning.
The flier doesn’t purport to reveal the secret behind the university’s functioning by blaming the Jews. It shows how university leadership, local the security apparatus, and powerful moneyed interests, especially the arms industry, collude to silence and intimidate a largely Jewish-led freedom struggle in the United States.
After a few hours to think about this map, I am floored by the "manufacturing consent" part of it. I cannot think of a single statement that either American Jewish Committee or American Jewish Congress has put out in the last 6 months. I am also reminded of the map of Zionist institutions in Boston which included almost every mainstream Jewish institution including synagogues and over which the ADL was livid. Abolitionists once asked their adherents to disassociate from any church that supported slavery (it did not go well) but I wonder if the student organizers would actually name a church/synagogue religious institution that openly supports Israel if they could get that information, even if the rabbi is like Rachel Timoner and does not hesitate to criticize Israel.
* if they could get the information about which trustees donated to it
Just a suggestion, if you're trying to make a case against these protests: You could argue that the Columbia students are wrong, that they don't understand the conflict, that Israel is justified in doing what it's doing. You're not obligated to go the additional step of claiming that hundreds of Columbia undergraduates want to kill all the Jews. And yes, I do understand that would require more effort on your part.
Tooze with his brain fried by critical theory and "intersectionality" comes across as a fully paid up member to the national socialist party.
Sorry, but after I filtered out the insults, I couldn't find anything here to respond to.
Hypocrisy reigns as always in USA.