London, February 09, 2024 Moody's Investors Service (Moody's) has today downgraded Government of Israel's foreign-currency and local-currency issuer ratings to A2 from A1.
Good to know Israel is doing so well financially, and that they have a debt-to-GDP ratio that many nations would envy. Something to think about when this nation, with it's less enviable debt-to-GDP ratio, gets asked for billions more to finance Israel's war.
"Israel’s effort to erase the Palestinian question by brute force" ? Israel's stated effort is to erase Hamas, not the Palestinian "question" (whatever that is) or people. Rather it is Hamas that calls for the genocide of Israeli Jews. Article 11 of Hamas' doctrine states: "The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [endowment] consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day." Article 15 says: "In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised." You are sadly misinformed.
Israel has pursued the ejection of Palestinians and the expansion of Israel continuously since 1948. Including running an apartheid state and breaching international genocide law in Gaza right now.
Oh come now. That small and pathetic admonishment the author allows himself, making no mention of wiping out the homes and infrastructure of 1.5 million+ in a deliberate industrial scale campaign of depopulation, which you would call a different word if it were your own on the receiving end. And you complain that as the Western elite still largely turn their heads and look away, that they aren't looking away enough. Not impressed.
Actually Israel is lying, they mostly just kill Palestinian civilians, and believe that all other races are cattle, so their genocidal nature is no surprise given their wretched beliefs.
Israel would not be engaged in a "violent and costly" campaign had Hamas not engaged in a genocidal rampage on October 7th, cheered on apparently by a majority of Palestinians.
I would have liked to also see some preliminary comments to the "what if" (albeit it looks more like "when") Israel will be found guilty of Genocide by ICJ. WHat will be the impact the subsequent lawfare that will be going on against Israel and all governments supporting Israel on economy and finaces??
The genocide claim before the ICJ is based on a legal definition that is light years away from the cheap term casually tossed around by ideologues. That the ICJ not only rejected but did not see South Africa’s argument on the genocide claim even worthy of discussion is an indication that when it reaches the merits in a few years time, the claim will be rejected. The “plausibility” bone it tossed to South Africa was no more than telling Israel to continue adhering to the Laws of Armed Conflict as it has been doing. Even South Africa’s Justice Minister recognized the failure of its legal gambit, made all the more evident by the ICJ’s rejection earlier today of South Africa’s desperate attempt to have it “order” Israel not to enter Rafah.
So, if I were you, I wouldn’t hold my breath for any adverse ruling. After all, there’s a good reason that after every Hamas initiated conflict in Gaza, every Western military sends its senior officers to study and use Israel’s innovative tactics for their own militaries.
If you believe that "the ICJ not only rejected but did not see South Africa’s argument on the genocide claim even worthy of discussion" then you clearly neither read nor understood its ruling.
Pull the quote from the language of the decision to support your claim. I discussed the ICJ’s discussion on the “plausibility” argument but nowhere did it even bother to examine the “truth” of the genocide being advanced - and that claim was fundamental to South Africa’s submission, the entire point of the exercise was for the court to order a ceasefire. The court conspicuously refused to fall for the bait. Even the South African minister admitted the case was a failure after the decision was announced.
The ICJ Order clearly states that there is: 1) plausible evidence that Israel has the intent to commit genocide; and 2) there is plausible evidence that Israel is committing genocide.
You acuse people of falling under Hamas propaganda. You think you are impartial?
Here are the orders given by the court to Israel:
(1) The State of Israel shall immediately suspend its military operations in and against Gaza.
(2) The State of Israel shall ensure that any military or irregular armed units which may be directed, supported or influenced by it, as well as any organisations and persons which may be subject to its control, direction or influence, take no steps in furtherance of the military operations referred to [in] point (1) above.
(3) The Republic of South Africa and the State of Israel shall each, in accordance with their obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, in relation to the Palestinian people, take all reasonable measures within their power to prevent genocide.
(4) The State of Israel shall, in accordance with its obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, in relation to the Palestinian people as a group protected by the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, desist from the commission of any and all acts within the scope of Article II of the Convention, in particular:
(a) killing members of the group;
(b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to the members of the group;
(c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and
(d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.
(5) The State of Israel shall, pursuant to point (4) (c) above, in relation to Palestinians, desist from, and take all measures within its power including the rescinding of relevant orders, of restrictions and/or of prohibitions to prevent:
(a) the expulsion and forced displacement from their homes;
(b) the deprivation of:
(i) access to adequate food and water;
(ii) access to humanitarian assistance, including access to adequate fuel, shelter, clothes, hygiene and sanitation;
(iii) medical supplies and assistance; and
(c) the destruction of Palestinian life in Gaza.
(6) The State of Israel shall, in relation to Palestinians, ensure that its military, as well as any irregular armed units or individuals which may be directed, supported or otherwise influenced by it and any organizations and persons which may be subject to its control, direction or influence, do not commit any acts described in (4) and (5) above, or engage in direct and public incitement to commit genocide, conspiracy to commit genocide, attempt to commit genocide, or complicity in genocide, and insofar as they do engage therein, that steps are taken towards their punishment pursuant to Articles I, II, III and IV of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.
(7) The State of Israel shall take effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of acts within the scope of Article II of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide; to that end, the State of Israel shall not act to deny or otherwise restrict access by fact-finding missions, international mandates and other bodies to Gaza to assist in ensuring the preservation and retention of said evidence.
(8) The State of Israel shall submit a report to the Court on all measures taken to give effect to this Order within one week, as from the date of this Order, and thereafter at such regular intervals as the Court shall order, until a final decision on the case is rendered by the Court.
(9) The State of Israel shall refrain from any action and shall ensure that no action is taken which might aggravate or extend the dispute before the Court or make it more difficult to resolve.”
Please, let me know what is Israel doing to fulfill these orders?
And I read now that the US is submitting a proposal to UNSC to stop the Israeli assault on Gaza and to oppose the ethnic clensing of Gaza and any Israeli new settlements in Gaza. If Israel has lost the US, then it truly shows that Israel has gone to the deep end.
Also, the propaganda carried by Israel cannot cover the attrocities committed in the West Bank by Israel since Oct 7..... for which 4 settlers so far have been sanctioned by the US.
Whatever you’re quoting is not the Court’s order which follows a different numbers pattern. I’ll guess it’s South Africa’s submission. The reason is that, according to you, the ICJ ordered Israel to ceasefire - the very relief the Court refused to order and which, at various points, you said was never asked for as it would be unilateral because Hamas not being a party or because the Court has no army to enforce the order.
If you are to be a more successful apologist for a terror group (as we learned from your recent post on a related thread), you need to do better. Trying to be consistent within your own argument would be a good start.
And, as anyone who’s paying attention to the news is aware, Algeria’s attempt at having the UN Security Council order an immediate ceasefire failed and all the US’s resolution seeks is a ceasefire at the earliest practical time. Freeing the hostages goes hand in hand with any ceasefire. War crimes - real ones such as hostage taking and everything Hamas did on October 7 through today - not invented ones of a type that not even the ICJ could bring itself to find - cannot go unrecognized and unpunished.
Israel is fighting the West’s fight; the U.S. is supporting it in its goal of eradicating Hamas with the silent support of Saudi Arabia and others. Everything else is cheap virtue signaling or worse.
I will look forward (not really) to your next comment when you argue that any Israeli military action during Ramadan would offend Muslim religious sensibilities - at which point you will be reminded that the 1973 surprise attack by Egypt and Syria against Israel, what is commonly remembered as the Yom Kippur War, was launched during Ramadan and is often called the Ramadan War in Arab countries. Or we can end now with that preemptive reminder.
I copied and pasted the summary from the IC site, sorry that you are so confused.
Israel is fighting the west's fight indeed, that one of domination and control, at all costs. It is interesting you have the stomach to argue for that , despite the fact that fails any smell test, ethical, moral, historical. the only thing the Israelis and US have is a certain degree of power. But that power is not an omnipotent power.
And Hamas is a terrorist organization only on some people's books, a minority of people and countries. Hamas was fostered and allowed to grow by Israeli, as a means to split the political space among the Palestinians and claim they have no one to talk to.
And do not take the Gulf monarchies innaction as silent support. As I mentioned before, the blood being shed now wontonly, with much glee by Israel and the US will haunt them for a long time. The Gulf monarchies have been assuaged that their rule will not be threatened by Iran, by China, by anyone not the west, and they are seeing that only the west is the destabilizing force in their area and as such they are taking good distance and really hedging the bets, with a big tilt towards the BRICS space.
The ICJ is suspecting Israel of acts of genocide and it moves things to trial to decide on it. ICJ did not reject or not even look at SA claim. I am not sure what you are reading, but definitely not the issued documents of ICJ, and likely have not listened to many good international lawyers being interviewed about the outcome and the votes and their meaning.
As for recent decision on Rafah, what it means is that it expects Israel to implement the existing order and if that happens, then the catastrophe unfolding in Gaza will not unfold.
It said the situation in Rafah “demands immediate and effective implementation of the provisional measures indicated by the Court in its Order of 26 January 2024”, when it ordered Israel to take all steps within its power to ensure genocidal acts are not being committed in its war on Gaza.
So, given the facts on the ground, that will only get worse, I do expect a just ruling that will condemn Israel of acts of genocide and pursuing at minimum ethnic cleansing.
Your near summary of Hamas’ desperate propaganda and distorted reporting from certain Israeli media is duly noted. That you imagine that the kidnapping of civilians makes them “prisoners” rather than hostages is a level that not even the ICJ lowered itself to.
At any rate, time will tell whose comments aged well.
South Africa’s first claim was for a declaration that Israel was committing genocide and the remedy was for an order for an immediate ceasefire. The ICJ did not grant that relief, in fact it didn’t even bother to discuss it. The proof is that there was no court ordered ceasefire.
The “plausibility” bone that was thrown was based on deliberately misrepresented statements, including by President Herzog, to pretend the subject was Palestinians when it was clearly Hamas. Other statements were made by individuals with no decision making authority. But as much as the court didn’t want to humiliate South Africa entirely, it did not want to pervert the law either.
Abiding by the Laws of Armed Conflict is a complete defense to any claim of genocide and ethnic cleansing. What South Africa apparently did not foresee is that, unlike in the political sphere, the ICJ will not change legal definitions just because the target is Israel - because then the new definitions will apply to all.
So, the likely result is that when the merits are reached, the anti-Israel crowd will have lost its major rhetorical talking points against Israel. But as Iran, coincidentally, helped South Africa balance its books, the Springboks did get something out of their case.
The court cannot order a ceasfire to Hamas that is not a signatory member. that has been plainly and clearly explained in many places by many people versed in international law. Tha fact that you go on riding this beaten horse as all MSM in the west as a clear victory for Israel shows not lack of knowledge, but intentional obfuscation and ill intent. Go on, be the devils advacote. For that matter, have a nice bath in the blood of 30,000 Palestinians dead, mostly children. From this time onward, the blood libel will really, really stick on Israel, since the whole world has seen it.
And as I said, the whole thing is on trial now and the court is debating on it, and it might take years for the verdict to be issued. Why do you think Germany has decided to speak for Israel, while a big German professor on international law has explained point by point why Germany has a very hard hill to clime, or a very deep well to get out from:
You are not a serious commenter, I’m afraid. Take a look at South Africa’s demands and you will see that its very first request for provisional relief was for an immediate ceasefire. That demand was rejected by the Court without any discussion. That Hamas was not a party is irrelevant as the ICJ did go out of its way to demand it release the hostages immediately and unconditionally.
The intellectual dishonesty underlying the entire case is that “Palestine” has submitted itself to the ICJ’s jurisdiction and yet has not intervened in this case. Why is that? Is Gaza not part of that claimed “state” and shouldn’t the PA be responsible for its actions?
After all, every poll shows that Palestinians support Hamas in overwhelming numbers, the PA has never rejected what Hamas has done and, to the contrary, is now processing dead, injured or arrested terrorists for payments from its “martyrs fund.” No one is fooled by this shell game, except for the willfully credulous and the hardened ideologues.
Your cavalier and baseless talk about a “blood libel” based on knowingly misleading casualty numbers put out by a terror group is part and parcel of the ongoing strategy by autocrats and others who oppose Western human rights concepts of cheapening important principles, as in South Africa’s case those of “genocide”, “ethnics cleansing” and “apartheid.”
Why you feel the need to defend Hamas (and its primitive barbarity) says more about you than the reality of what’s happening in Gaza. Ultimately you are free to believe what you wish even if the real world is altogether different.
Then why did South Africa make a ceasefire its first request for preliminary relief? I’m afraid that the facts of the case stand in the way of your rather transparent attempt to pull a victory from the jaws of defeat - or, as the Arab saying has it “the dog barks, the caravan moves on.”
I didn't pull anything. ICJ has reinforced its first call to Israel to stop conducting acts leading to genocide. ICJ doesn't have an army to enforce its rulings. The fact that SA has requested a ceasfire is neither here nor there. ALgeria has asked for a ceasfire at UNSC and US vetoed it, for reasons. And as I said, Israel is now under trial for genocide and that will take years. And if Israel will genocide and ethnic cleanse the Palestinians in Gaza and WB in the interime, international law will find it guilty as charge and slowly but surely the cogs of lawfare will befell Israel and its allies, from without and within. And, as I said, the blood libel will stick this time around, for good, and for real.
I literally cannot find what that $14.5 billion is supposed to go for other than making the US feel good that Israel needs certain advanced military technology. Also it is meant to make the Republicans feel good about supporting Ukraine aid so a) NOTHING may pass and b) depending on what happens in Ukraine and the 2024 election it cannot be counted on forever.
Provide a reason for your claim and maybe I’ll agree with it. But as you’ve done nothing of the kind in any of your responses, it makes any discussion difficult.
Prof. Tooze has in his various public statements and writings displayed a peculiar blind spot, arising out of a strange almost willed historical illiteracy, about Israel. Even when Hamas, whose raison d’être is spelled out for all to see in its Charter, is the aggressor, the focus is on Israel.
Most recently, and relevant to his non-economic asides here, he attached his name to a petition at Columbia that was viewed as supporting the Hamas terror group in the immediate aftermath of the October 7th massacre and before Israel began its response. To the general faculty’s credit, that petition was overwhelmingly rejected by a counter-petition that garnered over four times as many signatories.
But even here, what to make of his characterizations of Israel’s “relentless onslaught”, as if the IDF were acting in response to nothing in particular. A simple question is whether he believes that Hamas should remain an actor in Gaza after its barbarity of October 7, one which it has publicly announced it will repeat as often as necessary until Israel is destroyed. And if so, how does he imagine this end will be brought about?
War is an ugly business, always. The extent of the damage we’ve seen in the news is more of a testament to the extent Hamas turned Gaza, both above and underground, into a terror fortress. Nevertheless, while Hamas claims some 28,000 dead, this includes its and PIJ members (Israel estimates at around 12,000), civilians killed from the 15-20% of misfired Palestinian rockets and those killed by boot traps and IEDs meant for the IDF. Once those numbers are taken into account, the civilian to combatant ratio is far better than any achieved by any Western army in far less complicated battlefields.
The quickest way to end the most recent war Hamas started is for Hamas to surrender and release the remaining hostages (the taking of whom is a war crime per se). But, for people like Prof. Tooze and some of the commenters, the Palestinians are to be infantilized and deprived of their agency, because whatever the facts, it’s somehow always Israel’s fault.
Prof. Tooze’s views on economics, art and literature are always incisive and thoughtful. So too are his historical analyses - with this one glaring exception. Then again, if you rely on sources such as Haaretz, a now post-Zionist paper with a minuscule circulation and little to no influence in the public discourse, one is bound to misunderstand what is happening in Israel.
"he attached his name to a petition at Columbia that was viewed as supporting the Hamas terror group"
Viewed by who? You do know that there are people who see ANY criticism of Israel or the Netanyahu administration as "supporting the Hamas terror group", right?
For example, if you say that Elise Stafinik claims this petition was in support of Hamas, then I'd say "Who cares? She's proven herself to be a dishonest political hack."
From your comment, it is evident that you have no idea what petition I was referring to. It had nothing whatsoever to do with criticizing Israel’s Prime Minister. Yet you felt the need to respond anyway.
Right, YOU viewed it as an expression of support for Hamas, you've never provided ANY justification for that claim, we're just supposed to trust you. You say I don't know what's in the petition, but whose fault is that? You're the one who brought it up, not me. The person who makes the claim has the burden of proof. Next you'll tell me you found pigs can fly, and then blame me for not going the whole world over in search of flying pigs.
There is this thing called the internet, you may wish to check it out. But at least you are reconfirming that you are commenting on a matter of which you know nothing. So thank you for the candor.
Also, I got a chuckle out of your claim that AT's views on other subjects are always "incisive and thoughtful" but for this ONE exception. I guess it's never occurred to you that YOU might be the problem here, that you're capable of rational and objective thought on every subject EXCEPT Israel.
"Nevertheless, while Hamas claims some 28,000 dead, this includes its and PIJ members (Israel estimates at around 12,000), civilians killed from the 15-20% of misfired Palestinian rockets and those killed by boot traps and IEDs meant for the IDF. Once those numbers are taken into account, the civilian to combatant ratio is far better than any achieved by any Western army in far less complicated battlefields."
I'd call this the modern equivalent of Holocaust Denial.
First of all, what is happening in Gaza bears zero resemblance to the Holocaust. Second, If you really Hamas’ casualty numbers, none of its members have been killed because it doesn’t mention any. Does that really seem likely? Third, next time try to come up with an actual argument in opposition if you want to be taken seriously.
Ever the optimist that people are well-intentioned and open-minded, I hope that you will read and think about this analysis of Hamas’ casualty numbers. While it may be unclear for the moment how the IDF reaches its estimates, the improbability of the Hamas numbers should have been evident for a while.
"While it may be unclear for the moment how the IDF reaches its estimates"
LOL
Look, if you kill thousands of people you're going to come up with some kind of excuse for how you didn't really kill that many people, or that the people you killed deserved killing. This is just what governments have done throughout all of history. Did the US produce honest counts of the number of people they killed in Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam? If you asked the Russians about civilians they killed in Ukraine, would you get an honest answer? Of course not. Why should the Israelis be different? They've killed tens of thousands of Palestinians, and then they lie about it. Who would expect anything else?
Obviously, you cannot be troubled with any analysis that might force you to revisit your opinions. I suppose the question is why would you trust Hamas? That’s a rhetorical question, so don’t bother answering.
Good to know Israel is doing so well financially, and that they have a debt-to-GDP ratio that many nations would envy. Something to think about when this nation, with it's less enviable debt-to-GDP ratio, gets asked for billions more to finance Israel's war.
"Israel’s effort to erase the Palestinian question by brute force" ? Israel's stated effort is to erase Hamas, not the Palestinian "question" (whatever that is) or people. Rather it is Hamas that calls for the genocide of Israeli Jews. Article 11 of Hamas' doctrine states: "The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [endowment] consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day." Article 15 says: "In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised." You are sadly misinformed.
Israel has pursued the ejection of Palestinians and the expansion of Israel continuously since 1948. Including running an apartheid state and breaching international genocide law in Gaza right now.
So far Israel has erased nearly 30,000 Palestinians from existence, that vast majority of them having nothing to do with Hamas.
Oh come now. That small and pathetic admonishment the author allows himself, making no mention of wiping out the homes and infrastructure of 1.5 million+ in a deliberate industrial scale campaign of depopulation, which you would call a different word if it were your own on the receiving end. And you complain that as the Western elite still largely turn their heads and look away, that they aren't looking away enough. Not impressed.
Actually Israel is lying, they mostly just kill Palestinian civilians, and believe that all other races are cattle, so their genocidal nature is no surprise given their wretched beliefs.
Israel would not be engaged in a "violent and costly" campaign had Hamas not engaged in a genocidal rampage on October 7th, cheered on apparently by a majority of Palestinians.
I would have liked to also see some preliminary comments to the "what if" (albeit it looks more like "when") Israel will be found guilty of Genocide by ICJ. WHat will be the impact the subsequent lawfare that will be going on against Israel and all governments supporting Israel on economy and finaces??
The genocide claim before the ICJ is based on a legal definition that is light years away from the cheap term casually tossed around by ideologues. That the ICJ not only rejected but did not see South Africa’s argument on the genocide claim even worthy of discussion is an indication that when it reaches the merits in a few years time, the claim will be rejected. The “plausibility” bone it tossed to South Africa was no more than telling Israel to continue adhering to the Laws of Armed Conflict as it has been doing. Even South Africa’s Justice Minister recognized the failure of its legal gambit, made all the more evident by the ICJ’s rejection earlier today of South Africa’s desperate attempt to have it “order” Israel not to enter Rafah.
So, if I were you, I wouldn’t hold my breath for any adverse ruling. After all, there’s a good reason that after every Hamas initiated conflict in Gaza, every Western military sends its senior officers to study and use Israel’s innovative tactics for their own militaries.
If you believe that "the ICJ not only rejected but did not see South Africa’s argument on the genocide claim even worthy of discussion" then you clearly neither read nor understood its ruling.
Pull the quote from the language of the decision to support your claim. I discussed the ICJ’s discussion on the “plausibility” argument but nowhere did it even bother to examine the “truth” of the genocide being advanced - and that claim was fundamental to South Africa’s submission, the entire point of the exercise was for the court to order a ceasefire. The court conspicuously refused to fall for the bait. Even the South African minister admitted the case was a failure after the decision was announced.
The ICJ Order clearly states that there is: 1) plausible evidence that Israel has the intent to commit genocide; and 2) there is plausible evidence that Israel is committing genocide.
You acuse people of falling under Hamas propaganda. You think you are impartial?
Here are the orders given by the court to Israel:
(1) The State of Israel shall immediately suspend its military operations in and against Gaza.
(2) The State of Israel shall ensure that any military or irregular armed units which may be directed, supported or influenced by it, as well as any organisations and persons which may be subject to its control, direction or influence, take no steps in furtherance of the military operations referred to [in] point (1) above.
(3) The Republic of South Africa and the State of Israel shall each, in accordance with their obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, in relation to the Palestinian people, take all reasonable measures within their power to prevent genocide.
(4) The State of Israel shall, in accordance with its obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, in relation to the Palestinian people as a group protected by the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, desist from the commission of any and all acts within the scope of Article II of the Convention, in particular:
(a) killing members of the group;
(b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to the members of the group;
(c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and
(d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.
(5) The State of Israel shall, pursuant to point (4) (c) above, in relation to Palestinians, desist from, and take all measures within its power including the rescinding of relevant orders, of restrictions and/or of prohibitions to prevent:
(a) the expulsion and forced displacement from their homes;
(b) the deprivation of:
(i) access to adequate food and water;
(ii) access to humanitarian assistance, including access to adequate fuel, shelter, clothes, hygiene and sanitation;
(iii) medical supplies and assistance; and
(c) the destruction of Palestinian life in Gaza.
(6) The State of Israel shall, in relation to Palestinians, ensure that its military, as well as any irregular armed units or individuals which may be directed, supported or otherwise influenced by it and any organizations and persons which may be subject to its control, direction or influence, do not commit any acts described in (4) and (5) above, or engage in direct and public incitement to commit genocide, conspiracy to commit genocide, attempt to commit genocide, or complicity in genocide, and insofar as they do engage therein, that steps are taken towards their punishment pursuant to Articles I, II, III and IV of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.
(7) The State of Israel shall take effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of acts within the scope of Article II of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide; to that end, the State of Israel shall not act to deny or otherwise restrict access by fact-finding missions, international mandates and other bodies to Gaza to assist in ensuring the preservation and retention of said evidence.
(8) The State of Israel shall submit a report to the Court on all measures taken to give effect to this Order within one week, as from the date of this Order, and thereafter at such regular intervals as the Court shall order, until a final decision on the case is rendered by the Court.
(9) The State of Israel shall refrain from any action and shall ensure that no action is taken which might aggravate or extend the dispute before the Court or make it more difficult to resolve.”
Please, let me know what is Israel doing to fulfill these orders?
And I read now that the US is submitting a proposal to UNSC to stop the Israeli assault on Gaza and to oppose the ethnic clensing of Gaza and any Israeli new settlements in Gaza. If Israel has lost the US, then it truly shows that Israel has gone to the deep end.
Also, the propaganda carried by Israel cannot cover the attrocities committed in the West Bank by Israel since Oct 7..... for which 4 settlers so far have been sanctioned by the US.
Whatever you’re quoting is not the Court’s order which follows a different numbers pattern. I’ll guess it’s South Africa’s submission. The reason is that, according to you, the ICJ ordered Israel to ceasefire - the very relief the Court refused to order and which, at various points, you said was never asked for as it would be unilateral because Hamas not being a party or because the Court has no army to enforce the order.
If you are to be a more successful apologist for a terror group (as we learned from your recent post on a related thread), you need to do better. Trying to be consistent within your own argument would be a good start.
And, as anyone who’s paying attention to the news is aware, Algeria’s attempt at having the UN Security Council order an immediate ceasefire failed and all the US’s resolution seeks is a ceasefire at the earliest practical time. Freeing the hostages goes hand in hand with any ceasefire. War crimes - real ones such as hostage taking and everything Hamas did on October 7 through today - not invented ones of a type that not even the ICJ could bring itself to find - cannot go unrecognized and unpunished.
Israel is fighting the West’s fight; the U.S. is supporting it in its goal of eradicating Hamas with the silent support of Saudi Arabia and others. Everything else is cheap virtue signaling or worse.
I will look forward (not really) to your next comment when you argue that any Israeli military action during Ramadan would offend Muslim religious sensibilities - at which point you will be reminded that the 1973 surprise attack by Egypt and Syria against Israel, what is commonly remembered as the Yom Kippur War, was launched during Ramadan and is often called the Ramadan War in Arab countries. Or we can end now with that preemptive reminder.
I copied and pasted the summary from the IC site, sorry that you are so confused.
Israel is fighting the west's fight indeed, that one of domination and control, at all costs. It is interesting you have the stomach to argue for that , despite the fact that fails any smell test, ethical, moral, historical. the only thing the Israelis and US have is a certain degree of power. But that power is not an omnipotent power.
And Hamas is a terrorist organization only on some people's books, a minority of people and countries. Hamas was fostered and allowed to grow by Israeli, as a means to split the political space among the Palestinians and claim they have no one to talk to.
And do not take the Gulf monarchies innaction as silent support. As I mentioned before, the blood being shed now wontonly, with much glee by Israel and the US will haunt them for a long time. The Gulf monarchies have been assuaged that their rule will not be threatened by Iran, by China, by anyone not the west, and they are seeing that only the west is the destabilizing force in their area and as such they are taking good distance and really hedging the bets, with a big tilt towards the BRICS space.
The ICJ is suspecting Israel of acts of genocide and it moves things to trial to decide on it. ICJ did not reject or not even look at SA claim. I am not sure what you are reading, but definitely not the issued documents of ICJ, and likely have not listened to many good international lawyers being interviewed about the outcome and the votes and their meaning.
As for recent decision on Rafah, what it means is that it expects Israel to implement the existing order and if that happens, then the catastrophe unfolding in Gaza will not unfold.
It said the situation in Rafah “demands immediate and effective implementation of the provisional measures indicated by the Court in its Order of 26 January 2024”, when it ordered Israel to take all steps within its power to ensure genocidal acts are not being committed in its war on Gaza.
So, given the facts on the ground, that will only get worse, I do expect a just ruling that will condemn Israel of acts of genocide and pursuing at minimum ethnic cleansing.
Your near summary of Hamas’ desperate propaganda and distorted reporting from certain Israeli media is duly noted. That you imagine that the kidnapping of civilians makes them “prisoners” rather than hostages is a level that not even the ICJ lowered itself to.
At any rate, time will tell whose comments aged well.
South Africa’s first claim was for a declaration that Israel was committing genocide and the remedy was for an order for an immediate ceasefire. The ICJ did not grant that relief, in fact it didn’t even bother to discuss it. The proof is that there was no court ordered ceasefire.
The “plausibility” bone that was thrown was based on deliberately misrepresented statements, including by President Herzog, to pretend the subject was Palestinians when it was clearly Hamas. Other statements were made by individuals with no decision making authority. But as much as the court didn’t want to humiliate South Africa entirely, it did not want to pervert the law either.
Abiding by the Laws of Armed Conflict is a complete defense to any claim of genocide and ethnic cleansing. What South Africa apparently did not foresee is that, unlike in the political sphere, the ICJ will not change legal definitions just because the target is Israel - because then the new definitions will apply to all.
So, the likely result is that when the merits are reached, the anti-Israel crowd will have lost its major rhetorical talking points against Israel. But as Iran, coincidentally, helped South Africa balance its books, the Springboks did get something out of their case.
The court cannot order a ceasfire to Hamas that is not a signatory member. that has been plainly and clearly explained in many places by many people versed in international law. Tha fact that you go on riding this beaten horse as all MSM in the west as a clear victory for Israel shows not lack of knowledge, but intentional obfuscation and ill intent. Go on, be the devils advacote. For that matter, have a nice bath in the blood of 30,000 Palestinians dead, mostly children. From this time onward, the blood libel will really, really stick on Israel, since the whole world has seen it.
And as I said, the whole thing is on trial now and the court is debating on it, and it might take years for the verdict to be issued. Why do you think Germany has decided to speak for Israel, while a big German professor on international law has explained point by point why Germany has a very hard hill to clime, or a very deep well to get out from:
https://gpil.jura.uni-bonn.de/2024/01/germany-rushes-to-declare-intention-to-intervene-in-the-genocide-case-brought-by-south-africa-against-israel-before-the-international-court-of-justice/
You are not a serious commenter, I’m afraid. Take a look at South Africa’s demands and you will see that its very first request for provisional relief was for an immediate ceasefire. That demand was rejected by the Court without any discussion. That Hamas was not a party is irrelevant as the ICJ did go out of its way to demand it release the hostages immediately and unconditionally.
The intellectual dishonesty underlying the entire case is that “Palestine” has submitted itself to the ICJ’s jurisdiction and yet has not intervened in this case. Why is that? Is Gaza not part of that claimed “state” and shouldn’t the PA be responsible for its actions?
After all, every poll shows that Palestinians support Hamas in overwhelming numbers, the PA has never rejected what Hamas has done and, to the contrary, is now processing dead, injured or arrested terrorists for payments from its “martyrs fund.” No one is fooled by this shell game, except for the willfully credulous and the hardened ideologues.
Your cavalier and baseless talk about a “blood libel” based on knowingly misleading casualty numbers put out by a terror group is part and parcel of the ongoing strategy by autocrats and others who oppose Western human rights concepts of cheapening important principles, as in South Africa’s case those of “genocide”, “ethnics cleansing” and “apartheid.”
Why you feel the need to defend Hamas (and its primitive barbarity) says more about you than the reality of what’s happening in Gaza. Ultimately you are free to believe what you wish even if the real world is altogether different.
"The proof is that there was no court ordered ceasefire."
Wrong.
The ICJ cannot call for a ceasefire because it has no jurisdiction over the actions of Hamas, which is neither a state nor a signatory to the ICJ.
But thanks for playing ...
Then why did South Africa make a ceasefire its first request for preliminary relief? I’m afraid that the facts of the case stand in the way of your rather transparent attempt to pull a victory from the jaws of defeat - or, as the Arab saying has it “the dog barks, the caravan moves on.”
I didn't pull anything. ICJ has reinforced its first call to Israel to stop conducting acts leading to genocide. ICJ doesn't have an army to enforce its rulings. The fact that SA has requested a ceasfire is neither here nor there. ALgeria has asked for a ceasfire at UNSC and US vetoed it, for reasons. And as I said, Israel is now under trial for genocide and that will take years. And if Israel will genocide and ethnic cleanse the Palestinians in Gaza and WB in the interime, international law will find it guilty as charge and slowly but surely the cogs of lawfare will befell Israel and its allies, from without and within. And, as I said, the blood libel will stick this time around, for good, and for real.
I literally cannot find what that $14.5 billion is supposed to go for other than making the US feel good that Israel needs certain advanced military technology. Also it is meant to make the Republicans feel good about supporting Ukraine aid so a) NOTHING may pass and b) depending on what happens in Ukraine and the 2024 election it cannot be counted on forever.
In the world Joe Biden is living in aka the 1980s Israel may genuinely need that money.
Provide a reason for your claim and maybe I’ll agree with it. But as you’ve done nothing of the kind in any of your responses, it makes any discussion difficult.
Prof. Tooze has in his various public statements and writings displayed a peculiar blind spot, arising out of a strange almost willed historical illiteracy, about Israel. Even when Hamas, whose raison d’être is spelled out for all to see in its Charter, is the aggressor, the focus is on Israel.
Most recently, and relevant to his non-economic asides here, he attached his name to a petition at Columbia that was viewed as supporting the Hamas terror group in the immediate aftermath of the October 7th massacre and before Israel began its response. To the general faculty’s credit, that petition was overwhelmingly rejected by a counter-petition that garnered over four times as many signatories.
But even here, what to make of his characterizations of Israel’s “relentless onslaught”, as if the IDF were acting in response to nothing in particular. A simple question is whether he believes that Hamas should remain an actor in Gaza after its barbarity of October 7, one which it has publicly announced it will repeat as often as necessary until Israel is destroyed. And if so, how does he imagine this end will be brought about?
War is an ugly business, always. The extent of the damage we’ve seen in the news is more of a testament to the extent Hamas turned Gaza, both above and underground, into a terror fortress. Nevertheless, while Hamas claims some 28,000 dead, this includes its and PIJ members (Israel estimates at around 12,000), civilians killed from the 15-20% of misfired Palestinian rockets and those killed by boot traps and IEDs meant for the IDF. Once those numbers are taken into account, the civilian to combatant ratio is far better than any achieved by any Western army in far less complicated battlefields.
The quickest way to end the most recent war Hamas started is for Hamas to surrender and release the remaining hostages (the taking of whom is a war crime per se). But, for people like Prof. Tooze and some of the commenters, the Palestinians are to be infantilized and deprived of their agency, because whatever the facts, it’s somehow always Israel’s fault.
Prof. Tooze’s views on economics, art and literature are always incisive and thoughtful. So too are his historical analyses - with this one glaring exception. Then again, if you rely on sources such as Haaretz, a now post-Zionist paper with a minuscule circulation and little to no influence in the public discourse, one is bound to misunderstand what is happening in Israel.
"he attached his name to a petition at Columbia that was viewed as supporting the Hamas terror group"
Viewed by who? You do know that there are people who see ANY criticism of Israel or the Netanyahu administration as "supporting the Hamas terror group", right?
For example, if you say that Elise Stafinik claims this petition was in support of Hamas, then I'd say "Who cares? She's proven herself to be a dishonest political hack."
From your comment, it is evident that you have no idea what petition I was referring to. It had nothing whatsoever to do with criticizing Israel’s Prime Minister. Yet you felt the need to respond anyway.
Ah, now I get it. "Was viewed as..." means YOU viewed it that way.
Given that the second petition was in direct response to the first, your most recent comment confirms that you have no idea what is in either.
Right, YOU viewed it as an expression of support for Hamas, you've never provided ANY justification for that claim, we're just supposed to trust you. You say I don't know what's in the petition, but whose fault is that? You're the one who brought it up, not me. The person who makes the claim has the burden of proof. Next you'll tell me you found pigs can fly, and then blame me for not going the whole world over in search of flying pigs.
There is this thing called the internet, you may wish to check it out. But at least you are reconfirming that you are commenting on a matter of which you know nothing. So thank you for the candor.
Also, I got a chuckle out of your claim that AT's views on other subjects are always "incisive and thoughtful" but for this ONE exception. I guess it's never occurred to you that YOU might be the problem here, that you're capable of rational and objective thought on every subject EXCEPT Israel.
"Nevertheless, while Hamas claims some 28,000 dead, this includes its and PIJ members (Israel estimates at around 12,000), civilians killed from the 15-20% of misfired Palestinian rockets and those killed by boot traps and IEDs meant for the IDF. Once those numbers are taken into account, the civilian to combatant ratio is far better than any achieved by any Western army in far less complicated battlefields."
I'd call this the modern equivalent of Holocaust Denial.
First of all, what is happening in Gaza bears zero resemblance to the Holocaust. Second, If you really Hamas’ casualty numbers, none of its members have been killed because it doesn’t mention any. Does that really seem likely? Third, next time try to come up with an actual argument in opposition if you want to be taken seriously.
You keep playin' with your pocket calculator, pal, while people keep dying. You're not convincing anyone but yourself.
Ever the optimist that people are well-intentioned and open-minded, I hope that you will read and think about this analysis of Hamas’ casualty numbers. While it may be unclear for the moment how the IDF reaches its estimates, the improbability of the Hamas numbers should have been evident for a while.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/7168?disposition=inline
"While it may be unclear for the moment how the IDF reaches its estimates"
LOL
Look, if you kill thousands of people you're going to come up with some kind of excuse for how you didn't really kill that many people, or that the people you killed deserved killing. This is just what governments have done throughout all of history. Did the US produce honest counts of the number of people they killed in Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam? If you asked the Russians about civilians they killed in Ukraine, would you get an honest answer? Of course not. Why should the Israelis be different? They've killed tens of thousands of Palestinians, and then they lie about it. Who would expect anything else?
Obviously, you cannot be troubled with any analysis that might force you to revisit your opinions. I suppose the question is why would you trust Hamas? That’s a rhetorical question, so don’t bother answering.